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 God gets away with it again...

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EvilHippyEmperor
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PostSubject: God gets away with it again...   Thu Oct 16, 2008 6:51 pm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7673591.stm

From the article "Legal case against God dismissed"

A US judge has thrown out a case against God, ruling that because the defendant has no address, legal papers cannot be served.

The suit was launched by Nebraska state senator Ernie Chambers, who said he might appeal against the ruling.

He sought a permanent injunction to prevent the "death, destruction and terrorisation" caused by God.

Judge Marlon Polk said in his ruling that a plaintiff must have access to the defendant for a case to proceed.

"Given that this court finds that there can never be service effectuated on the named defendant this action will be dismissed with prejudice," Judge Polk wrote in his ruling.

Mr Chambers cannot refile the suit but may appeal.

'God knows everything'

Mr Chambers sued God last year. He said God had threatened him and the people of Nebraska and had inflicted "widespread death, destruction and terrorisation of millions upon millions of the Earth's inhabitants".

He said he would carefully consider Judge Polk's ruling before deciding whether to appeal.

The court, Mr Chambers said, had acknowledged the existence of God and "a consequence of that acknowledgement is a recognition of God's omniscience".

"Since God knows everything," he reasoned, "God has notice of this lawsuit."

Mr Chambers, a state senator for 38 years, said he filed the suit to make the point that "anyone can sue anyone else, even God".

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PostSubject: Re: God gets away with it again...   Fri Oct 17, 2008 12:35 am

So... he has to pay fines, death sentence, or what?
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PostSubject: Re: God gets away with it again...   Fri Oct 17, 2008 6:37 am

As I recall, he's suing for damages.

I actually think this is pretty clever. I've been keeping half an eye on it since it started. A lawyer got sick of the fact that you could sue anyone for any reason at any time ("I spilled my coffee all by myself into my lap! McDonalds owes me all the money it has!") so he decided to push the absurdity to its extreme and see if it would generate enough backlash to end the insanity.

So far, oddly, it hasn't.
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PostSubject: Re: God gets away with it again...   Sat Oct 18, 2008 6:45 am

That sneeky little snake. Ok "God", where are ya? haha
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PostSubject: Re: God gets away with it again...   Wed Oct 22, 2008 6:42 pm

Well he's not on the buses, at least according to the British Humanist Society:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7681914.stm

'No God' slogans for city's buses

Bendy-buses with the slogan "There's probably no God" could soon be running on the streets of London.

The atheist posters are the idea of the British Humanist Association (BHA) and have been supported by prominent atheist Professor Richard Dawkins.

The BHA planned only to raise 5,500, which was to be matched by Professor Dawkins, but it has now raised more than 36,000 of its own accord.

It aims to have two sets of 30 buses carrying the signs for four weeks.

The complete slogan reads: "There's probably no God. Now stop worrying and enjoy your life."

As the campaign has raised more than anticipated, it will also have posters on the inside of buses as well.

The BHA is also considering extending the campaign to cities including Birmingham, Manchester and Edinburgh.

Professor Dawkins said: "Religion is accustomed to getting a free ride - automatic tax breaks, unearned respect and the right not to be offended, the right to brainwash children.

"Even on the buses, nobody thinks twice when they see a religious slogan plastered across the side.

"This campaign to put alternative slogans on London buses will make people think - and thinking is anathema to religion."

Hanne Stinson, chief executive of the BHA, said: "We see so many posters advertising salvation through Jesus or threatening us with eternal damnation, that I feel sure that a bus advert like this will be welcomed as a breath of fresh air.

"If it raises a smile as well as making people think, so much the better."

But Stephen Green of pressure group Christian Voice said: "Bendy-buses, like atheism, are a danger to the public at large.

"I should be surprised if a quasi-religious advertising campaign like this did not attract graffiti.

"People don't like being preached at. Sometimes it does them good, but they still don't like it."

However the Methodist Church said it thanked Professor Dawkins for encouraging a "continued interest in God".

Spirituality and discipleship officer Rev Jenny Ellis said: "This campaign will be a good thing if it gets people to engage with the deepest questions of life."

She added: "Christianity is for people who aren't afraid to think about life and meaning."

The buses with the slogans will run in Westminster from January.


A few things I especially like about this story:
1) The reaction of the Methodist church, not usually known for their sense of humour.
2) "People don't like being preached at." from a representative for Christian Voice

2) How terribly British it all is: "There's probably no God". We're not going to take it too seriously, and we're not out to offend people by going so far as to state categorically that there is no God...

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PostSubject: Re: God gets away with it again...   Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:06 pm

EvilHippyEmperor wrote:
Well he's not on the buses, at least according to the British Humanist Society:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7681914.stm

'No God' slogans for city's buses

Bendy-buses with the slogan "There's probably no God" could soon be running on the streets of London.

The atheist posters are the idea of the British Humanist Association (BHA) and have been supported by prominent atheist Professor Richard Dawkins.

The BHA planned only to raise 5,500, which was to be matched by Professor Dawkins, but it has now raised more than 36,000 of its own accord.

It aims to have two sets of 30 buses carrying the signs for four weeks.

The complete slogan reads: "There's probably no God. Now stop worrying and enjoy your life."

As the campaign has raised more than anticipated, it will also have posters on the inside of buses as well.

The BHA is also considering extending the campaign to cities including Birmingham, Manchester and Edinburgh.

Professor Dawkins said: "Religion is accustomed to getting a free ride - automatic tax breaks, unearned respect and the right not to be offended, the right to brainwash children.

"Even on the buses, nobody thinks twice when they see a religious slogan plastered across the side.

"This campaign to put alternative slogans on London buses will make people think - and thinking is anathema to religion."

Hanne Stinson, chief executive of the BHA, said: "We see so many posters advertising salvation through Jesus or threatening us with eternal damnation, that I feel sure that a bus advert like this will be welcomed as a breath of fresh air.

"If it raises a smile as well as making people think, so much the better."

But Stephen Green of pressure group Christian Voice said: "Bendy-buses, like atheism, are a danger to the public at large.

"I should be surprised if a quasi-religious advertising campaign like this did not attract graffiti.

"People don't like being preached at. Sometimes it does them good, but they still don't like it."

However the Methodist Church said it thanked Professor Dawkins for encouraging a "continued interest in God".

Spirituality and discipleship officer Rev Jenny Ellis said: "This campaign will be a good thing if it gets people to engage with the deepest questions of life."

She added: "Christianity is for people who aren't afraid to think about life and meaning."

The buses with the slogans will run in Westminster from January.


A few things I especially like about this story:
1) The reaction of the Methodist church, not usually known for their sense of humour.
2) "People don't like being preached at." from a representative for Christian Voice

2) How terribly British it all is: "There's probably no God". We're not going to take it too seriously, and we're not out to offend people by going so far as to state categorically that there is no God...


I love it. Thanks for posting, EHE, you've made a sinner's day brighter Smile
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PostSubject: Re: God gets away with it again...   Thu Oct 23, 2008 3:09 am

EvilHippyEmperor wrote:
Well he's not on the buses, at least according to the British Humanist Society:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7681914.stm

'No God' slogans for city's buses

Bendy-buses with the slogan "There's probably no God" could soon be running on the streets of London.

The atheist posters are the idea of the British Humanist Association (BHA) and have been supported by prominent atheist Professor Richard Dawkins.

The BHA planned only to raise 5,500, which was to be matched by Professor Dawkins, but it has now raised more than 36,000 of its own accord.

It aims to have two sets of 30 buses carrying the signs for four weeks.

The complete slogan reads: "There's probably no God. Now stop worrying and enjoy your life."

As the campaign has raised more than anticipated, it will also have posters on the inside of buses as well.

The BHA is also considering extending the campaign to cities including Birmingham, Manchester and Edinburgh.

Professor Dawkins said: "Religion is accustomed to getting a free ride - automatic tax breaks, unearned respect and the right not to be offended, the right to brainwash children.

"Even on the buses, nobody thinks twice when they see a religious slogan plastered across the side.

"This campaign to put alternative slogans on London buses will make people think - and thinking is anathema to religion."

Hanne Stinson, chief executive of the BHA, said: "We see so many posters advertising salvation through Jesus or threatening us with eternal damnation, that I feel sure that a bus advert like this will be welcomed as a breath of fresh air.

"If it raises a smile as well as making people think, so much the better."

But Stephen Green of pressure group Christian Voice said: "Bendy-buses, like atheism, are a danger to the public at large.

"I should be surprised if a quasi-religious advertising campaign like this did not attract graffiti.

"People don't like being preached at. Sometimes it does them good, but they still don't like it."

However the Methodist Church said it thanked Professor Dawkins for encouraging a "continued interest in God".

Spirituality and discipleship officer Rev Jenny Ellis said: "This campaign will be a good thing if it gets people to engage with the deepest questions of life."

She added: "Christianity is for people who aren't afraid to think about life and meaning."

The buses with the slogans will run in Westminster from January.


A few things I especially like about this story:
1) The reaction of the Methodist church, not usually known for their sense of humour.
2) "People don't like being preached at." from a representative for Christian Voice

2) How terribly British it all is: "There's probably no God". We're not going to take it too seriously, and we're not out to offend people by going so far as to state categorically that there is no God...


That's a bit over-the-top, I think.
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PostSubject: Re: God gets away with it again...   Thu Oct 23, 2008 6:08 am

Well, though I do obviously take issue with the message, I think I'm going to have to side with those who say thinking is good. I think if people believe in God just because (don't you love it when the answer is "just because?") that is not only stupid, but counter to the idea of Christianity at it's core. It's about a personal commitment and a personal conviction. So from outside of Christianity looking in, believing in Christianity (or any random system of belief) for no reason at all is just plain stupid and pointless. From the point of view of Christianity itself, the idea of being a "just because" Christian is actually roundly condemned in the Bible, and does nothing to merit salvation; so from our point of view it's as bad (personally) as Atheism or Satanism, and worse (publicly) because it gives those few thinking Christians out there a bad name because we get associated with the drooling masses in the public mind.

And then we get Christians who WANT to be the drooling masses and then I have to go find something to bang my head off again.

If this breaks that cycle, then it's probably a good thing.

Somehow I doubt it will. But that's me. I'm cynical like that. Rolling Eyes
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PostSubject: Re: God gets away with it again...   Thu Oct 23, 2008 7:28 am

I took a sleeping pill, so, some of this does not make much sense but I will try to answer it as coherent as I can

Personally, every group you can find good rational people, but they don't stand out against screaming fanatics who say their point of view is the right one, to be honest, who doesn't like the glory of the victor and gloating on the shame of the defeated.

To be honest, Richard Dawkins puts me off Atheism and I admit that he certainly has a point in a number of things, reading him is for me as unbearable as reading some statements of, let say, Castro. Both men has a point, both men have good ideas; I respect Castro for the Cuban Revolution but how they embrace the sole idea they are right, or at least their core ideas and this blind them in diferent degrees. Also people like my father, whom I suspect disregards the fact I believe in God as something silly that I will outgrown eventually.

Same thing happened with me with His Dark Materials and The Chronicles of Narnia; if Pullman and Lewis hasn't shoveled their ideas into these books I would have enjoy them far more. I just couldn't stand Aslan and the books would have been more exciting without him; I think you can point out every big flaw of Christiendom with Narnia and Lewis should have learn from Tolkien who throw The Lion, The Witch and The Wardrobe to the trash calling the whole theology behind "blantant and naive"

At the same time, things like Pat Robertson or the sex abuse scandals makes me at times shameful of consider myself a Catholic (a member of GB even insulted me once because of it) but I believe nonetheless and I neither pretend to impose my religion to others nor say is the right one (or if there is a right one) and I don't let it influence my non-religion related choices; paraphrasing JFK, don't consider me as a Catholic person, but a person who happens to be a Catholic as I see you as a person who happens to be Atheist, a person who happens to be Agnostic, a person who happens to be Wiccan.

In the bottom line, we are human beings who just want a roof, two or three meals a day and live in peace with others along with a common sense of right and wrong. I don't know if I am right, I don't know if you are right. We could all be right, we could all be wrong.

Quoting Jorge Luis Borges regarding religious matters: "happy is the one who does not pretend to be right, either everyone is right or is not"

One of the things I would like to do in my life is read sacred books, read the Bible and the most popular variations (including the Jefferson Bible, that excludes all the religious passages of the life of Jesus), the Qu'ran, the Torah, the Popol Vuh among others and try to see, understand and feel their beliefs and form myself a better idea of all of this. Expand my religious knowledge (which I consider a bit limited) and perhaps improve my life in that way... I am full of doubts... and if all of it end up being useless for me at least I made the journey
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PostSubject: Re: God gets away with it again...   Thu Oct 23, 2008 8:55 am

Well i prefer my Christians boiled and on toast!


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PostSubject: Re: God gets away with it again...   Thu Oct 23, 2008 1:51 pm

Kasmira wrote:
Well i prefer my Christians boiled and on toast!



Make sure you drain them thoroughly. You don't want soggy toast.
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PostSubject: Re: God gets away with it again...   Thu Oct 23, 2008 2:33 pm

Gomez wrote:
Well, though I do obviously take issue with the message,
Just to clarify: Do you mean that you think the statement is incorrect, or do you disagree with the message appearing on the side of buses?

I assume you mean the former, but if you do mean the latter, then I will just point out that it is not at all uncommon for christian groups over her to run exactly this sort of advertising campaign, so this is very much a 'response in kind' from the BHA
Gomez wrote:

I think I'm going to have to side with those who say thinking is good.
I think in this one article we see two sides to both parties involved.

We see open-mindedness and support for debate in the comments:
"If it raises a smile as well as making people think, so much the better." - from the BHA and
"This campaign will be a good thing if it gets people to engage with the deepest questions of life." - from the Methodist minister.

Yet we also see narrow-mindedness from both sides:
"atheism [is] a danger to the public at large." - from the representative of Christian Voice
"thinking is anathema to religion." - from Professor Dawkins

I think this supports my oft-stated opinion (which I think Maxmorden has also referred to above) that the quality of a person has little, if anything, to do with the religion or philosophy to which they claim adherence.

Similarly, I suppose, followers of any belief system can be found amongst 'the drooling masses' (I do like that phrase! Laughing )

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PostSubject: Re: God gets away with it again...   Sat Oct 25, 2008 5:08 am

Regarding clarification:
Your assumption is correct, sir. I disagree with the absence of deity being probable. I do not disagree with the right of a religion (including Atheism) to advertise.

And as for your second point:
Quite so. I've met idiot atheists, idiot Catholics, idiot Protestants, idiot Mormons, idiot agnostics, lots of idiot Wiccans, an idiot Jew... No idiot Muslims yet, but I assume that's just because I don't know any Muslims. Anyone who tries to cast any system of belief as being made up of morons best first take a good look at the fellows in his own ranks.
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PostSubject: Re: God gets away with it again...   Sat Oct 25, 2008 7:23 am

Gomez wrote:
lots of idiot Wiccans

Hey now a lot of my friends resemble that remark!

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PostSubject: Re: God gets away with it again...   Sun Oct 26, 2008 7:43 am

Gomez wrote:
Regarding clarification:
Your assumption is correct, sir. I disagree with the absence of deity being probable. I do not disagree with the right of a religion (including Atheism) to advertise.

And as for your second point:
Quite so. I've met idiot atheists, idiot Catholics, idiot Protestants, idiot Mormons, idiot agnostics, lots of idiot Wiccans, an idiot Jew... No idiot Muslims yet, but I assume that's just because I don't know any Muslims. Anyone who tries to cast any system of belief as being made up of morons best first take a good look at the fellows in his own ranks.

Mostly agree.

I clinged when I saw this:

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PostSubject: Re: God gets away with it again...   Tue Oct 28, 2008 5:36 am

Something to be said for that message, Max. If "human rights" are just a human invention, then Hitler was correct, might makes right, and whoever makes the laws can do whatever he wants to anyone he wants. Hitler was only wrong if rights come from a higher power than him.
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PostSubject: Re: God gets away with it again...   Tue Oct 28, 2008 12:27 pm

Sorry Gomez, but that is no more correct than saying that all those who kill in the name of God are justified. I am sure you would not claim that catholicism justifies the acts of the IRA etc.

There are a lot of atheists who believe that morals do not need to come from a higher power, and can be derived without reference to religion:
http://www.secularhumanism.org/library/fi/kurtz_23_1_1.htm
http://www.humanism.org.uk/site/cms/contentViewArticle.asp?article=1209

There are always people who will use their religion or 'belief system' to justify their own failings, just as there will always be those who use those same texts as ideals towards which they aspire.

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PostSubject: Re: God gets away with it again...   Sat Nov 08, 2008 8:48 pm

Religion, for some, is a great excuse for why things do and don't happen. I'll admit that at times I say, "well I guess God didn't want it that way". When the truth, most likely, is because I didn't try hard enough to make it happen. Of course this all stems from my own belief that God has a hand in your life about half the time. The other half is left up to you to get things done. To have that will power and tenacity.
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PostSubject: Re: God gets away with it again...   Fri Jan 16, 2009 2:16 pm

Well it seems that God has a supporter on the buses:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/hampshire/7832647.stm

Man refuses to drive 'No God' bus

A Christian bus driver has refused to drive a bus with an atheist slogan proclaiming "There's probably no God".

Ron Heather, from Southampton, Hampshire, responded with "shock" and "horror" at the message and walked out of his shift on Saturday in protest.

First Bus said it would do everything in its power to ensure Mr Heather does not have to drive the buses.

Buses across Britain started displaying atheist messages in an advertising campaign launched earlier this month.

Mr Heather told BBC Radio Solent: "I was just about to board and there it was staring me in the face, my first reaction was shock horror.

"I felt that I could not drive that bus, I told my managers and they said they haven't got another one and I thought I better go home, so I did.

"I think it was the starkness of this advert which implied there was no God."

When he returned to work on Monday he was called into a meeting with managers and agreed to go back to work with the promise he would only have to drive the buses if there were no others available.

First Bus said in a statement: "As a company we understand Mr Heather's views regarding the atheist bus advert and we are doing what we can to accommodate his request not to drive the buses concerned."

It added: "As an organisation we don't endorse any of the products or sentiments advertised on our buses.

"The content of this advert has been approved by the Advertising Standards Agency and therefore it is capable of being posted on static sites or anywhere else."

The advertising campaign is backed by the British Humanist Association and prominent atheist, Professor Richard Dawkins.

Hanne Stinson, chief executive of the British Humanist Association, said: "I have difficulty understanding why people with particular religious beliefs find the expression of a different sort of beliefs to be offensive.

"I can't understand why some people seem to have a different attitude when it comes to atheists."

Pressure group Christian Voice has questioned the campaign's effectiveness but the Methodist Church said it would be a "good thing if it gets people to engage with the deepest questions of life" and suggested it showed there was a "continued interest in God".

The advertisements run on 200 bendy buses in London and 600 vehicles in England, Scotland and Wales.


Just for the record, I applaud the way that both Mr Heather and his employers have tackled the problem.

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PostSubject: Re: God gets away with it again...   Fri Jan 16, 2009 4:43 pm

Hell here in the US he would have filed some huge ass lawsuit. It's nice to know other parts of the world can still deal with unpleasantness with out asking for millions in "damages".


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PostSubject: Re: God gets away with it again...   Fri Jan 16, 2009 6:27 pm

Arkhum wrote:
Religion, for some, is a great excuse for why things do and don't happen. I'll admit that at times I say, "well I guess God didn't want it that way". When the truth, most likely, is because I didn't try hard enough to make it happen. Of course this all stems from my own belief that God has a hand in your life about half the time. The other half is left up to you to get things done. To have that will power and tenacity.

A parable:

A man bought a house in a village. The house had been standing empty for some time, and the grounds of the house had been neglected for years. Luckily the man was a keen gardener, and within a few months the gardens were transformed.

One day, as he worked in his garden, the local pastor/priest/rabbi/imam happened to be passing.
"What a beautiful garden you have!" exclaimed the holy man.
"Why, thank you." exclaimed the gardener.
"It is wonderful, is it not," said the holy man, "what God and man can achieve, working in harmony?"
"Indeed it is, Father" replied the home owner, "but you should have seen the state it was in when God looked after it by himself."

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PostSubject: Re: God gets away with it again...   Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:42 pm

Mr Heather's reasonable approach to this situation has unfortunately not been echoed by all christians, some of whom are now claiming outrage at the message "There is probably no God."

I am sorely tempted to go on the rampage with a marker pen, and amend some of their posters:
"Jesus is probably Lord!"
"Christ probably Lives!"
"Repent and probably be saved"
"Jesus said 'I am probably the Way, maybe the Truth, and most likely the Light' "

(I'll leave the "Jesus Loves You", "Jesus is coming", and "Jesus saves" because there are already classic responses to them!)

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PostSubject: Re: God gets away with it again...   Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:23 pm

In that case I refuse to ride on any bus that has pro-religious slogans. I also refuse to drive by churches with neon signs and especially the church in town with the giant LCD screen (that rivals any stadium screen) outside that shouts God's messages at you between advertisements.
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PostSubject: Re: God gets away with it again...   Wed Jan 21, 2009 6:57 pm

And still it drags on:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7842769.stm

Atheist ads 'not breaking code'

An atheist UK bus campaign which uses the slogan "There's probably no God" does not breach the advertising code, a watchdog has ruled.

The Advertising Standards Authority said it assessed 326 complaints. Some claimed the wording was offensive to people who followed a religion.

But the body concluded the adverts were unlikely to mislead or cause widespread offence and closed the case.

The 140,000 campaign was launched by the British Humanist Association.

The Advertising Standards Authority (ASA) said it would not be further investigating any complaints about the campaign, which was launched on British buses and the London Underground on the 6 January.

While some of the complaints claimed the adverts were offensive and denigrated people of faith, others challenged whether they were misleading because the advertiser would not be able to substantiate its claim that God "probably" did not exist.

Driver refusal

However, the ASA ruled the adverts were an expression of the advertiser's opinion and that the claims in it were not capable of objective substantiation.

Although the watchdog acknowledged the content of the campaign would be at odds with the beliefs of many, it concluded that it was unlikely to mislead or to cause "serious or widespread offence".

The adverts, with the slogan "There's probably no God. Now stop worrying and enjoy your life", were launched earlier this month following fund-raising by the British Humanist Association.

Featuring on 200 bendy buses in London and 600 other vehicles in England, Scotland and Wales, they were backed by high profile atheists, including Professor Richard Dawkins.

Last week, Christian bus driver Ron Heather, from Southampton, Hampshire, refused to drive one of the buses carrying the atheist slogan and walked out of his shift in protest.


At this rate the outraged christian minority are going to make this the most influential bus advert ever!

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